Chris Croyle wrote: My turning radius in my 61 PU is not as sharp turning left as it is turning right. Is this true for all Spicer 25 4.88 stock axles and steering? I've already put a new steering kit in the short arm that goes from the outside of the frame to the left knuckle. I've replaced the entire left knuckle including top and bottom bearings...oh, and the lower kingpin. The only thing I didn't replace is the top and bottom racers in the knuckle. I haven't got to examining the right knuckle. The only thing I can think of being a problem is the stabilizer steering shock that is mounted on the tie rod & axle, or this is just a normal steering radius?

Wayne E LaMothe wrote: Mine does the same thing and I thought maybe a power steering conversion would quicken up the steering ratio thus rectifying the situation. Have observed a lot of traffic on this site regarding power steering conversions for CJ models but has anyone done it right (subjective interpretation) on a pickemup?

Glenn Goodman wrote: I've got an M38A1 with the same axle. The maintenance manual gives the turning radii for left and right. I do not remember the numbers off the top of my head, but there is a difference.

Jerry Adams wrote: From my copy of the Jeep Universal Service Manual:

"To avoid possible damage to the universal joints on the front axles of 4-wheel drive vehicles, it is advisable to check the turning angle. . ."

"The turning angle of 'Jeep' Universal models was changed effective with the following vehicle serial numbers: CJ-3B, 57348-35326; CJ-5, 57548-48284; CJ-6, 57748-12497. All models CJ-2A, CJ-3A, and vehicles with serial numbers lower than the above should have a turning angle of not more than 23 (degrees) *** both left and right*** (emphasis mine) if equipped with Bendix joints, and not more than 29 (degrees) if equipped with Rzeppa joints. On vehicles with serial numbers higher than the above, the turning angle should not be more than 27-1/2 (degrees)."

From the above, I would infer that your axle should have the same turning radius in both directions. I would also assume that the angle would be set at 27-1/2 degrees. Note the key words **infer** and **assume**. Does anyone have specifications that actually pertain to Chris' pickup?

Rick Stivers wrote: OK here's what I found in the "Service Manual For Jeep Utility Vehicles" Chapter M Paragraph M-14 page 202. "To avoid possible damage to the universal joints on the front axles of 4-wheel drive vehicles, it is advisable to check the turning angle. The drive vehicles should have a turning angle of not more than 29 {degrees}. The angle is measured by placing the front wheels on turntables. The stop screw for setting the turning angle is shown in Fig. 253. To adjust the screw, it is necessary to break the weld holding the screw in position. When the adjustment is made, reweld the screw in place to prevent any movement."

From what I can find there should be no reason (besides adjustment) for it to turn further one way than another. This said, I have to point out that my truck does the same thing. Sharper right than left, and it never reaches the stop bolts. Has anyone fixed this problem before?

Glenn Goodman wrote: I checked the maintenance manual for my M38A1, which has the model 25 front end, and it indicates the minimum diameter right turn is 49' 6" and left turn is 40' 0". Quite a difference. It seems to me this is due to the design of the axle and not the design of the vehicle. I don't think I'd be changing the angles on this by removing or cutting off the stop bolts. Gears and knuckles can take just so much stress.

Matt Phillimore wrote: From my mechanic's manual (Only covers up to 48 models, but who knows) Under steering troubles and remedies, it lists short turning radius one side...with probable problems being:

Center bolt in spring sheered off

Axle shifted

Steering arm bent

Steering arm not properly located on steering gear.

That's all I can find. Might help, might not. but hey, that's what this list is for, right.

Jerry Adams wrote: Rick- Thanks for a good post. I think that you have hit the nail squarely on the head. Assuming they are properly adjusted, the stop bolts would limit the turning radius to the maximum angle specified for the particular U-Joints installed in it. They would in all probability have the same turning radius both right and left. Since your truck is not hitting the stop bolts, something else is limiting the turning radius. I would look at:

1. Any bent steering parts? (Tie rods, etc.)

2. Is the axle itself bent?

3. Worn King Pins?

4. Is the steering properly centered? I don't know what kind of steering box you have, but in my '2A, the Ross steering box has a high point where the center of the sector movement is located. To be properly installed, the wheels should be pointed straight ahead when the sector is at the high point (the middle of it's range of motion).

5. Bent, broken, or misaligned suspension.

Again, thanks for some good information.

Chris Croyle wrote: I finally remembered where I read about a steering problemthat Rick Grover had. He has it posted at: http://www.public.asu.edu/~grover/willys/frax.html

Rick had a severely worn out Bendix universal joint. I wonder if the steel balls in the universal joint can wear a groove that would cause the steering to get hung up at a particular steering point, thus causing the steering to not fully rotate? The steering arm sounds like a good answer to the steering problem too, but mine looks like it has been on my vehicle since 1961 - but who knows?

Stephane Rousseau wrote: I'll relate a little adventure I had with my M-38 concerning turning and bendix joint.

I was out in the bush a few years back, and got stuck in a muddy rut.(Yeah that's right, a jeep stuck in mud, wow that rarely happens to me. LOL) So anyway, I tried to steer out of it by cranking the steering all the way, but it was wedged against the wall of the rut, so the pitman arm snapped and each wheel went its own way and in the process, as I was also applying gas, the bendix axle joint snapped as well. Well the jeep slept in the bush that night and dad courier me a spare pitman arm and a set of wagner free hubs. Quick replacement of steering and hub to free up the front axle and I was out on my way home. This isn't all yet....

I was slowly driving along the trail home steering was kind of stiff but didn't think much of it. Driving down a steep hill the steering locked up to the right and over the hill and into the ravine we rolled. Jeep pretty mangled four paws in the air but I was all right. Hand winched the jeep back on all fours and went to get a bigger four-by to pull me out of the pretty steep ravine. Worked at it a few hours and broke another pitman arm in the process. So the jeep slept in the woods again that night while dad couriered another pitman arm(got a whole bunch from an old guy who had access to military supply). The next day get there to find out some F#$K A$%hole had taken pleasure in shooting my jeep with a shotgun.

To make a long story longer, I replaced the parts, got the jeep home in low granny gear, patched her up back to pristine shape, the right side bendix joint was broken and jammed which caused the steering to lockup. Today she's with a good soul, I hope, I sold her for seed money on the other jeeps and the willys truck.

Terry Kangas wrote: I've been told by a usually reliable source that "POWER PUNCH" works great in the front steering knuckles. thick enough not to leak, but clings and lubricates everything. NAPA sells it.

Marshall Rimland wrote: I used Mobil 1 synthetic grease in my knuckles as well as the wheel Bearings. Only after complete cleanup of king-pin bearings, joints, wheel bearings, to avoid compatibility problems. All has been just fine for the last 6 months.

James Roney wrote: If you are good, you can do this conversion with little cutting, and a small amount of fabrication.

First, and foremost, go find the original column from a pre-72 dispatch Jeep. (DJ-5) The column will come complete with all necessary U-joints, and lower link, and will accept your original Willys steering wheel, turn signal switch, and has a horn/brush provision.

When you get your steering box, don't forget the rag joint and lower link. Nearly all GM passenger cars 1966-1980 will have it. The advantage is the collapsible "double-D" shaft. I recommend that you install this safety device, as it could provide some protection it the event of a collision. You will need to "box" your frame horn, but that's a good idea for both sides anyway. The Advanced Adapters steering mount can be used, but it's just as easy to fabricate your own out of 1/2" thick plate. You will need to buy a new tie rod and drag link, as well as the special tie rod end with the hole in it. You can find it on a 47-71 CJ.

There is a small amount of welding involved here, so it's not trivial, but if done properly, I'm sure that you will be satisfied with the result. Avoid using a GM Column, because they look awful, and they really don't "fit."

Merl wrote: Hey James, lots of good info here! Thanks. I've read up on the Saginaw conversion for my 2A (mostly just the Advanced Adapter's manual), and I've got a couple of questions... The AA instructions specify using your existing column, cutting it off above the Ross box and welding the U-joint at this point. Sounds like you're saying that this can be avoided by using the DJ-5 column, right?

Since my CJ-2A doesn't have original turn signals and you say that the DJ-5 column "will accept your original Willys <snip turn signal switch", can I use the DJ-5 switch or is it on the wrong (i.e. right) side? It'd sure be nice to have turn signals and horn built-in instead of "tacked on", but I'd like to retain a look similar to original. At least I'd like it to look old enough so that those that don't know won't ask. How's the look of a DJ column as compared to other older model Jeeps? I assume that the Saginaw box itself can't come from the same pre-72 DJ since it would be right-hand drive rather than the normal left. Am I correct? As a matter of fact, I thought ALL pre-72 CJs were Ross...so now I'm confused... About the new tie-rod and drag link you mention...if I remember right the pictures of the AA conversion shows a tie-rod from the box to the passenger side knuckle, and a drag link from there over to the driver's side knuckle. What you describe doesn't sound the same to me, could you explain?

Jeff Interesting stuff, James, as usual. I've been looking at a means of updating the wagon's steering as well so here's a few questions and comments. I believe the original vehicle that started this thread was a truck which I assume has a steering setup similar to the wagon, but different from the CJ's, etc. which has the steering gear in front of the axle if I recall correctly. Have I gotten lost? Is the idea that of putting a GM steering gear at the horn of a truck and then making the linkage with u-joints? That's some mighty tight, almost 90 deg, turns isn't it? It's also a problem for me in clearing the V8 exhaust and PTO shaft. And, this is a lot of steering geometry to change so I'd suggest some care and thought to get it all done correctly. I prefer the steering geometry that you get with the original setup on my wagon so I've been looking at ways to put a newer box there and keep the original column. I found a guy with and old Ford and he found that early 80's Toyota trucks use a power steering box that fits very nicely. He had to cut the bottom of the steering column and used a u-joint connection. It looked very clean and this is my plan at this point. I also plan on replacing the current linkage with a rod/rod-end setup. I am now interested in what the DJ column looks like as I dislike chopping up good original stuff. Also, my steering wheel isn't coming of of my column. I assume it's just stuck from being on there so long. I'd welcome any helpful hints at getting it off. It looks like I'll have to fab some sort of puller setup.

Jeff wrote: Hey James, lots of good info here! Thanks. I've read up on the Saginaw conversion for my 2A (mostly just the Advanced Adapter's manual), and I've got a couple of questions...

The AA instructions specify using your existing column, cutting it off above the Ross box and welding the U-joint at this point. Sounds like you're saying that this can be avoided by using the DJ-5 column, right?

James: YES! That is the beauty of the DJ column. The bottom of the column has a spline and bushing that accept the universal joint yoke and cross. It looks exactly the same as your column will look after cutting and welding etc, except that you will be able to service it, since its splined and bolted instead of welded. (hey! Stronger, cheaper, and easier!)***

Jeff: Since my CJ-2A doesn't have original turn signals and you say that the DJ-5 column "will accept your original Willys <snip turn signal switch", can I use the DJ-5 switch or is it on the wrong (i.e. right) side?

James: It is on the correct side. Older style ones actually have a self-canceling wheel that rides on the steering wheel. You can also use the Signal Stat series 900 universal switch. ***

Jeff: It'd sure be nice to have turn signals and horn built-in instead of "tacked on",

James: The DJ horn brush is located at the top of the column, near the TS switch, and the wiring is integral with the Turn Signal wiring. Your existing Willys Wheel and horn button can be made to work.***

Jeff: but I'd like to retain a look similar to original. At least I'd like it to look old enough so that those that don't know won't ask. How's the look of a DJ column as compared to other older model Jeeps?

James: It looks like a steel tube that is the same diameter as your existing tube, except the base of the column has a bearing in it, and the top does too. Your CJ column clamp will fit perfectly.***

Jeff: I assume that the Saginaw box itself can't come from the same pre-72 DJ since it would be right-hand drive rather than the normal left. Am I correct?

James: Yep! It's backwards, and manual.***

Jeff: As a matter of fact, I thought ALL pre-72 CJs were Ross...so now I'm confused...

James: You should be...I meant to say 72-75 DJ...no, wait, now I'm confused. You need to go shopping, but I'm pretty sure that 1960's DJ's will work. ***

Jeff: About the new tie-rod and drag link you mention...if I remember right the pictures of the AA conversion shows a tie-rod from the box to the passenger side knuckle, and a drag link from there over to the driver's side knuckle. What you describe doesn't sound the same to me, could you explain?

James: Semantics...The "tie rod" connects the left knuckle to the right knuckle. The "drag link" connects the pitman arm to the knuckle. In this case, a special "center socket tie rod connection" AA#716819 provides the connection point, as there is only one hole in the knuckle. That special part is not special at all, and can be found on your -2A. The exploded view in the AA catalog is correct. The pitman arm from a GM passenger car will also work. (not special) ...but wait, there's more. If you decide to go with the power unit, there may be a space issue with the "rag joint" and the front cross-member. AA solved that with their spud shaft,#717835. If you find it's close, you might try the detroit universal style joint, which has a smaller OD. (72-86 CJ)I personally went with the Borgeson Universal, which has a 1.5" OD. It costs $90.00, but it's pretty.

Advanced Adapters is really good about selling portions of their kit, so this conversion should run you about $200, plus the box & pump. While you're molesting the DJ, get the tie rod ends as well, since they are usually free, and make excellent spares. (2 LH, +2RH)

Jeff: Interesting stuff, James, as usual. I've been looking at a means of updating the wagon's steering as well so here's a few questions and comments.

I believe the original vehicle that started this thread was a truck which I assume has a steering setup similar to the wagon, but different from the CJ's, etc. which has the steering gear in front of the axle if I recall correctly. Have I gotten lost?

James: ***yes, you're lost. Early Cj's (1946-1971) used a unique drag link set up that is frightenly similar to the Pick-up / wagon. A Ross style box is rigidly fixed to the steering column, and actuates a longitudinally mounted drag link, which attaches to a bell-crank that is pivoted on the radiator support. (early ones pivoted on a pin attached to the axle.) This all happened inboard of the frame rail. Two short separate links were attached from the bell-crank to each steering knuckle. If you compress the suspension, the toe-in would change. ***

Jeff: Is the idea that of putting a GM steering gear at the horn of a truck and then making the linkage with u-joints?

James: ***That's the general idea. The u-joint at the steering box is almost straight, and the one at the base of the column is about 50-60 degrees.***

Jeff: That's some mighty tight, almost 90deg, turns isn't it? It's also a problem for me in clearing the V8 exhaust and PTO shaft. *** Yeah, if you're running a Ford V-8, you need to deal with the oil filter too! If you've got the PTO, then your problem is even more interesting. Since I hate repairing broke winch cables, you might think about running a hydraulic pump off the PTO, and then use a hydraulic winch...($$$)And, this is a lot lot of steering geometry to change so I'd suggest some care and thought to get it all done correctly.

James: **Fortunately, the engineering has already been done. If you duplicate the column geometry from a 1971-1975 CJ-5 you're in good shape. ***

Jeff: I prefer the steering geometry that you get with the original setup on my wagon so I've been looking at ways to put a newer box there and keep the original column. I found a guy with and old Ford and he found that early 80's Toyota trucks use a power steering box that fits very nicely. He had to cut the bottom of the steering column and used a u-joint connection. It looked very clean and this is my plan at this point. I also plan on replacing the current linkage with a rod/rod-end setup. I am now interested in what the DJ column looks like as I dislike chopping up good original stuff.

James: ***Yeah, but you still have that "little link" on the bottom of the knuckle that comes loose. It is also prone to rocks, stumps, etc, which results in a rather abrupt right turn. I once added the control valve and cylinder from a 1966-68 Ford Mustang and fitted it to the original drag link. It worked OK, but was very hard on the rod ends, and steering. Also didn't like the hoses hanging so low. I'll check out a Toyota box, might be interesting.***

Jeff: Also, my steering wheel isn't coming of of my column. I assume it's just stuck from being on there so long. I'd welcome any helpful hints at getting it off. It looks like I'll have to fab some sort of puller setup.

Rick Stivers wrote: The rear shackles on my 62 Willys Pickup seem to be oddly made. They are mounted on the "inside" of the spring hanger. Then they flare out to fit the outside of the spring.

It seems that this would make the shackles a lot weaker at the spring hanger. Are they all made like this, or is this something someone changed to later?

PS The shackles on the left side of my truck are damaged. One is twisted (How do you twist only one side of a shackle?) and the other one is cracked so I need to replace them.

Frank Wood wrote: Mine are the same on my '64 PU. My right side shackle had a nasty crack in it. Bought two new ones from Senor Walck for $24.50 each. Wear items I guess. But isn't everything a wear item?

R COX wrote: I noticed that the shackles on my truck were the same also. I would guess that these are stock from the looks of 'em. I too have one bent up. I thought some one in the past had hooked a tow chain on it or something of the like.

Richard Grover wrote: The inside/outside shackles on the rear are stock. The right one on my truck was worn out, I mean the bolt had worked it's way up through the bronze bushing and about halfway through the thickness of the top of the spring eye. I replaced the shackle, the bolt and the top leaf of the spring. The shackle on the other side appeared to have been replaced previously. Having only had my Willys a couple of years, and maybe 15,000 miles, I have no idea how long these last. However, I have driven on some pretty rough roads and carried some heavy loads with no obvious damage. I think they are probably strong enough for normal driving conditions, but a tow chain on one would not be good.

Jeff Gent wrote: I don't know how the wagon compares to the truck, but my rear shackles are straight. I also seem to remember, I'll have to confirm, that mine went through the frame, thus no hanger.

Since the subject of spring mounts has been broached, I'm curious about the mounting of the front of the rear springs. Rather than two similar bolt holes in the hanger, the outside of the bolts has a rather large head (around 1.25") that fits in a large hole with the outside surface flush with the outside of the hanger. This is good for keeping things from getting hung up but a pain when you want to get the nut off. The PO welded a nut to one side to deal with this, I was lucky on the other side. I wanted to put greasable bushings in when I redid the springs (assuming I can find bushings that fit) but this setup looks like I'll have to weld in new hangers to use a standard bolt setup. Any opinions/theories about the stock setup and changing over to a greasable bolt setup (I already know about current commercial sources/making my own). I did notice, but have yet to scrape all the junk off to look closer, that the rear of the front spring has grease nipples already and that the front springs have military-wrapped eyes (something the jeep-tech guys seem to pay extra for).

Dave and Robin Samuelson wrote: Well, step 1 is get a couple cans of Mr. Bubbles and scrub the hell out of the areas you want to play with. Second, check out any racing/high performance street car shop and ( take a bolt with you ) and they should be able to hook you up with the greasable style bolts. Even a farm supply store would have them.

Chris Croyle writes: Rick, do you have stock springs on your PU? My "flat" front springs consist of 3 leafs - definitely not stock. I was curious what you have since you also have a Chevy 350 and if they sit properly. Frank Wood was impressed with his new stock springs but I don't want to purchase them if they also go flat.

Rick Stivers answered: Chris, I have the original stock springs in my truck. They have 10 leaves, are 36 1/4" long and 1 3/4" wide. They are supposed to be rated at 640 lbs. I'm not sure if that is apiece or as a set (Guys can you help me out there). These springs are 36 years old and only sag a little bit with the 350. The previous owner said they sagged a little more before he installed the 350 back in 1978, and that the arch had returned to them afterward. That led me to believe that the 350 was lighter than the L-226. Someone else posted a while back that their small block Chevy had not stained their lift but that the L-226 had. I wish I could find out the weight of these two engines. With the stock springs installed the truck rides very rough. If I put about 500lbs in the bed it rides much better. The other thing I want to do is disassemble my springs, sand blast them, paint them, install new bushings, and then install Teflon pads between the leaves. I think this will make the truck ride much nicer but I think it will end up costing me almost as much as new springs would.

Frank Wood wrote: Got my front axle assembly bolted on on Sunday. Looks beautiful. Rear axle next. The rear springs I bought from Carl have some kind of paraffin coating on them. No paint. I asked Carl today (I call him on a daily basis) if I could paint them. He said the wax stuff was just to "lubricate" between the springs and I could paint them with no harm done. Any opinions? I have thought about painting them black like the front pair are painted, but my manual says not to.

Mark wrote: Frank-I've spent some time hanging around at Texas Spring in Amarillo, talking with the owner - *the* authority on spring rebuilds, upgrades, etc in the Texas Panhandle. It's a great big dark shop with a couple of forges, great big trucks parked around with the axles removed (most of his work in commercial), soot everywhere, etc. It's great!

He made me four new leafs (the main leaf from each spring), and checked out the rest of my spring packs. His policy was to slap a coat of pain on his newly assembled spring packs (not each leaf separately). I asked him what kind of paint he used. I can't remember the name off hand, but I do recall that he used what he used because it was cheap, not because it was especially good. He said that Kelley Moore KellGuard was very good oil base paint for the frame, etc, but on the springs "it don't really matter because it'll all be gone in six months".

That's probably true. I told him not to paint mine, and instead took them home, brushed em up good, primed and painted with the KellGuard, and six months later, they're not looking too great anymore - especially next to each other where they rub. The stationary parts (U bolts, etc) all look fine.

My jeep is not street legal and I only use it around home, and the occasional trip (on a trailer) to the mountains. I'm sure if somebody drove their jeep regularly, the spring paint job would look even worse.

My advice: Go ahead and paint em. One thing I would have done different is I should NOT have primed them. Since the primer is a different color, as the paint flakes off, the lighter color below shows up, making the job look sloppy. Just put on the black paint only (that's what the spring guy does!).

Rick Stivers wrote: Hey Rick Grover, How are those new springs? Did you take them out for a test drive this weekend? Where they brand new from Carl or used? How much did they cost? Did they ride softer than the Ranchos? Who me? Nooooooo, I'm not nosey. :-)

Richard Grover wrote: Last week I only drove about 16 miles, all on pavement (except over the curb to park in a vacant lot). The clutch was not right so I didn't go farther. I believe the springs are softer, but a little more thorough test is in order. The springs are new manufacture to original specs, from Walck's. I don't remember the exact price, but it was about the same as the Ranchos, maybe a little less.

I only worked on the Willys for a couple of hours this past weekend. My daughter and I seeded the lawn (yes it's time to plant in Arizona) and then I went with a friend to test a sand anchor. We're planning a drive in the dunes south of the border the day after Thanksgiving. With the Willys on jack stands so much lately, I'll probably ride in his Suburban. (ack! heresy!) I want it solid before I start crossing international borders. Winching out of deep sand with his new Pull-Pal worked great, (and I can still hit a shotgun shell at 50 yds with a open-sight .22 -- not much of a challenge for you sharp shooters, but it made me feel OK).

I celebrated V'day by flying my 5x7 flag and tinkering on my Willys. I believe I've discovered the cause of the clutch problems. The clutch plate center was bent. I got a new clutch plate, a transmission platform for my floorjack, and a plastic clutch centering tool that fits. I'm hoping for easier going and better results with the next transmission install any day now. (always an optimist :-)

Tim Lankins wrote: Just a note on the Ranchos they are only $150 a pair but they are STIFF !

Glenn Goodman wrote: A bare F-134 weighs in at 365 lbs. and with accessories (I assume belts, pullies, carb, etc.) weighs in at 500 lbs. Can't imagine a 226 would be twice the weight, but ya never know.

Chris Croyle wrote: About a month ago I was trying to figure out why my PU would mysteriously pull to the left. I found the problem to be a worn out bushing in the rear of the left front spring. This caused the entire left side of the front axle to shift front and back. My front suspension consists of a 3 leaf spring unit 1 3/4" wide. It doesn't look original when I compare it to the spare pair I have. And yes Rick Grover, when you mentioned about the possible extra stress from after market springs in your web page, I welded the stress crack on each side of my frame (located near the axle rubber stopper). Is it difficult locating these bushings? I seem to remember a string about bushings not too long ago, but I get a little trigger happy with the delete key at times.

William A Tomlinson wrote: Chris, I bought my new bushings from NAPA and fit perfect. They were exactly original. even though my leafs are different, they should have yours.

Marshall Rimland wrote: I would like to install a new set of shock absorbers on my 1961 Willys Pick-up. Any suggestions for the best brand and model for this vehicle?

Richard Grover wrote: I have Rancho 5000's on my Willys pickup. They have shocks in all lengths. I'm happy with them, but I can't give a comparison, except that they are better than the old shot shocks that I had before. They have a life-time warranty. (I'm not sure it that is my life-time, the Jeep's life-time, or the shock's life-time -- they'll last 'til they die ;-)

Richard Grover wrote: A few reasons why I chose Rancho:

1) They are made for the 4-wheel market, so are probably tough enough;

2) They have a lifetime warranty, so if you ever destroy one, get a replacement free;

3) They have more lengths than any other shocks I could find.

My local dealer (4 Wheelers' Supply, Phoenix) has a catalog of all Rancho Shocks. I'm sure all other dealers have the same. I looked at the catalog with the counter guy. It lists all their shocks with a letter designation for the ends. A stock Willys needs a loop at both ends but I forget the letter designation, something like EBH. There are columns that list the max and min extension of each shock.

I had Rancho 5000's on my Willys when I had the Rancho 2 1/2" lift springs. In that case I measured the distance between the shock mounts and between the bump stops and the axle. Subtracting the latter from the former gives minimum length. Maximum length is more of a guess. I jacked the truck up by the frame, letting the axle droop with the wheels off the ground. That gives a sort of reasonable max, but it is possible that with extreme twisting (one wheel up and the other down) and bouncing the maximum could be a little more than that measured with the axle hanging even. I was surprised how little droop there was. As I said before, Rancho springs are stiff. As far as I know, I never touched the bump stops with these springs on my Willys, and believe me I tried. I went over things so rough the impacts broke things off in the engine compartment (oil filter and horn), but I never hit the bump stops. Of course I just have a four-banger, so maybe if you have a V-8 turbo diesel ... YRMV ;-)

This fall I switched to springs duplicating stock, and of course, I had to get different shocks. Once again, I measured and scanned down the page in the catalog to find one with the min & max I wanted.

Maximum extension is just as critical as minimum. My friend cracked the frame on his Chevy 4x4 with shocks too short. When he completely unloaded the suspension (like bouncing off the ground) the springs slammed the axles down to the length of the shock, and the shock limited the travel. After a few months, the upper shock mount was tearing a section out of his frame. Maximum extension of the shock should be just a little more than you think your suspension will ever allow.

Rancho has a wide variety of shocks. I found length for two different springs and stock mounts. You should be able to find what you need without moving the shock mounts.